LEARN THE HISTORY
Tensions among the followers of the three major monotheistic religions are front and center in the news headlines. But history shows that these tensions are nothing new — Christians, Jews, and Muslims have been battling one another for centuries. Each tradition values peace, but generation after generation, hostility and resentment seem to overcome idealism and end in violence. Though the human picture holds little hope, these obstacles to harmony direct our attention to a more spiritual perspective. And it is in this spiritual realm that there is hope for lasting healing and peace.
The history of the Middle East is filled with ironies. First, it’s important to understand that these three religious traditions share a common ancestor: the patriarch Abraham. Bearing a name that some scholars interpret as “exalted father,” Abraham grew up about 4,000 years ago in Ur, a city in a section of southern Mesopotamia, later called Chaldea. Today this region is part of Iraq. Biblical tradition has Abraham receiving a covenant, or formal agreement, from God on behalf of Abraham’s descendants. In God’s covenant, He promised Abraham that his family would become a great people and would inherit land.
The concept of a covenant is central to Biblical theology. Borrowed from ancient contract law, covenant gives a framework and vocabulary to what entered human experience as pure revelation: a sense of God’s identity, nature, and care for His creation. This covenant articulated a bond between God and His children comparable to a contract—a binding agreement. Later, this covenant’s specific terms were set forth in the Ten Commandments. While some groups have interpreted the covenant as limited to a specific religion or culture, in its highest sense God’s covenant is one of love. And this love embraces all, in every place, and throughout all time.
Viewed from a human perspective, the covenant presented two serious problems.
Viewed, however, from a human perspective, the covenant presented two serious problems from the outset. First was the matter of who had a right to the land. Abraham, under divine direction, had left the prosperous city of Ur for Canaan, to settle there. Ger, meaning sojourner, was a term used to describe someone who settled for a time in a country not his own; such an individual had certain rights under the law, but was not a citizen of the community.
According to Biblical tradition, under the terms of Abraham’s covenant with God, Abraham and his family were entitled to lay claim to Canaan, the Promised Land. The Hebrews eventually settled in the land, but were expelled by subsequent conquest. Today, many centuries later, the ownership of that relatively tiny parcel of land is still in contention.
Such contention is fueled by the second problem inherent in a solely human interpretation of God’s covenant with Abraham—ancestry. Who, exactly, are his descendants? And does every descendent have equal claim to the ancestral estate?
In effect during Abraham’s era in the ancient Near East (and for centuries afterwards) was the law of primogeniture, where the majority (and sometimes all) of a father’s estate went to the firstborn son. Abraham had not one, but two, sons. The elder, Ishmael, was the son of Hagar, Abraham’s Egyptian slave. Yet both mother and child were eventually banished from the family at Abraham’s wife’s insistence.
Sarah wanted to be sure that her son, Isaac, received his father’s estate.
Sarah had been Abraham’s wife from the outset, and when it appeared she was not able to have children, she encouraged him to have a child with their servant, Hagar. But God later blessed Sarah with a child, even though she was far beyond childbearing years. So when Sarah’s son, Isaac, was born, she wanted to be sure he, and not Hagar’s son, Ishmael, received his father’s estate.
As the child of the legal wife, Isaac did inherit Abraham’s possessions, including—according to Biblical tradition—rights to the Promised Land of Canaan. It finally came into Hebrew hands some 700 years later, after the Hebrews went to Egypt at a time of famine, became enslaved there, and then were liberated under the leadership of Moses, as described in the book of Exodus.
Ancient Semitic tradition included a vibrant and enduring sense of family, whereby all family members, throughout every generation, are symbolically united in, and present with, their patriarch. So a promise made to Abraham is in effect made to everybody descended from him. That includes both Muslims and Jews, with Christians developing their religion from the foundation of Judaism.
When the concept of ancestry is spiritualized, each one of us can rightfully be regarded as a child of God.
Like the idea of a covenant, ancestry—when weighted down with long-standing traditional limits and viewed from a sense of ownership—leads to inevitable conflict. It can produce a sense of “win/lose” that turns individuals into adversaries instead of brethren. But when the concept of ancestry is spiritualized, each one of us—throughout human history—can rightfully be regarded as a child of God, a member of His family. Therefore, each one is a vital part of Abraham’s kindred and covenant.
The great division between Jews and Muslims on this specific issue arises from differing interpretations regarding the principle of primogeniture. Among Hebrews, primogeniture was repeatedly set aside in favor of the view that God specifically chose a leader from each generation, rather than leaving the matter to birth order.
However, Muslims, who are the descendants of the first-born son of Abraham, Ishmael, hold a strict interpretation of primogeniture in this instance, and claim that the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael are entitled to the land. Those descendants are Arabs, and the land that they claim includes the territory known today as Israel.
This land has been called by several names throughout history.
This land actually has been called by several names throughout history. Before the Hebrew conquest, it was Canaan. Then it was renamed in honor of Abraham’s grandson Jacob, who received the new name, Israel, after his struggle with an angel of God at Peniel. Then in Roman times, cartographers noted several Philistine cities near the coast, and so they renamed the territory Palestine, “the land of the Philistines.”
While technology has improved this land’s value for agricultural purposes in recent times, it nevertheless remains a stony, semiarid territory. And it is also rather small. Other far more promising territories surrounding this land are oil rich and flourishing.
The land of Israel symbolically represents a treasury of spiritual inspiration to all three religions.
But the land of Israel symbolically represents a treasury of spiritual inspiration and strength to all three religions. To the Jews, it is the land of Abraham, Moses, and David; to the Christians, it is the land where Jesus lived and preached; to the Muslims it is the land promised to Abraham and through primogeniture, to his first-born son, Ishmael.
Century after century, the issues of ancestry and entitlement have been the impetus for war. And from this brief overview, it’s clear that the pattern of human history offers little hope for a future reconciliation among age-old enemies. Solutions can only come from a radically different perspective—that is, from a God’s-eye view of His creation.
So long as the discussion begins with disparate groups who demand rights to various claims and convictions, the situation will never end in unity. The discussion must begin with God and what He has created—each individual in every nation and culture in His own image. Not, ultimately, as mortals, but as spiritual beings, as must be the case with whatever reflects God, Spirit.
In God’s creation there is but one Parent and one family.
In this creation there is but one Parent and one family, one power, and one Love that is truly infinite, blessing everyone, all the time. No one is cast out, put down, forgotten, or oppressed in God’s sight. Such human perspectives have no standing with Him, and must eventually be seen for the distortion that they are. In limitless God there is limitless good and a unique place for every one of His children.
Mary Baker Eddy gave a clear explanation of this idea: “One infinite God, good, unifies men and nations; constitutes the brotherhood of man; ends wars; fulfils the Scripture, ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself;’ annihilates pagan and Christian idolatry,—whatever is wrong in social, civil, criminal, political, and religious codes; equalizes the sexes; annuls the curse on man, and leaves nothing that can sin, suffer, be punished or destroyed.” That “one infinite God” tends to it all.
Now all of this could be just brave talk and little else, unless as individuals we actually govern our lives by these truths. Aligning ourselves with peace—being “peacemakers”—aligns us with divine strength for daily life. And our prayers for those directly involved in the conflicts around the world gain authority and practicality to move events and transform lives. We can begin at the beginning—with God—and move in accordance with His grace and love. One step at a time.
BY Elaine Follis
Reprinted from the November 2006 issue of The Christian Science Journal.
The history of the Middle East is filled with ironies. First, it’s important to understand that these three religious traditions share a common ancestor: the patriarch Abraham. Bearing a name that some scholars interpret as “exalted father,” Abraham grew up about 4,000 years ago in Ur, a city in a section of southern Mesopotamia, later called Chaldea. Today this region is part of Iraq. Biblical tradition has Abraham receiving a covenant, or formal agreement, from God on behalf of Abraham’s descendants. In God’s covenant, He promised Abraham that his family would become a great people and would inherit land.
The concept of a covenant is central to Biblical theology. Borrowed from ancient contract law, covenant gives a framework and vocabulary to what entered human experience as pure revelation: a sense of God’s identity, nature, and care for His creation. This covenant articulated a bond between God and His children comparable to a contract—a binding agreement. Later, this covenant’s specific terms were set forth in the Ten Commandments. While some groups have interpreted the covenant as limited to a specific religion or culture, in its highest sense God’s covenant is one of love. And this love embraces all, in every place, and throughout all time.
Viewed from a human perspective, the covenant presented two serious problems.
Viewed, however, from a human perspective, the covenant presented two serious problems from the outset. First was the matter of who had a right to the land. Abraham, under divine direction, had left the prosperous city of Ur for Canaan, to settle there. Ger, meaning sojourner, was a term used to describe someone who settled for a time in a country not his own; such an individual had certain rights under the law, but was not a citizen of the community.
According to Biblical tradition, under the terms of Abraham’s covenant with God, Abraham and his family were entitled to lay claim to Canaan, the Promised Land. The Hebrews eventually settled in the land, but were expelled by subsequent conquest. Today, many centuries later, the ownership of that relatively tiny parcel of land is still in contention.
Such contention is fueled by the second problem inherent in a solely human interpretation of God’s covenant with Abraham—ancestry. Who, exactly, are his descendants? And does every descendent have equal claim to the ancestral estate?
In effect during Abraham’s era in the ancient Near East (and for centuries afterwards) was the law of primogeniture, where the majority (and sometimes all) of a father’s estate went to the firstborn son. Abraham had not one, but two, sons. The elder, Ishmael, was the son of Hagar, Abraham’s Egyptian slave. Yet both mother and child were eventually banished from the family at Abraham’s wife’s insistence.
Sarah wanted to be sure that her son, Isaac, received his father’s estate.
Sarah had been Abraham’s wife from the outset, and when it appeared she was not able to have children, she encouraged him to have a child with their servant, Hagar. But God later blessed Sarah with a child, even though she was far beyond childbearing years. So when Sarah’s son, Isaac, was born, she wanted to be sure he, and not Hagar’s son, Ishmael, received his father’s estate.
As the child of the legal wife, Isaac did inherit Abraham’s possessions, including—according to Biblical tradition—rights to the Promised Land of Canaan. It finally came into Hebrew hands some 700 years later, after the Hebrews went to Egypt at a time of famine, became enslaved there, and then were liberated under the leadership of Moses, as described in the book of Exodus.
Ancient Semitic tradition included a vibrant and enduring sense of family, whereby all family members, throughout every generation, are symbolically united in, and present with, their patriarch. So a promise made to Abraham is in effect made to everybody descended from him. That includes both Muslims and Jews, with Christians developing their religion from the foundation of Judaism.
When the concept of ancestry is spiritualized, each one of us can rightfully be regarded as a child of God.
Like the idea of a covenant, ancestry—when weighted down with long-standing traditional limits and viewed from a sense of ownership—leads to inevitable conflict. It can produce a sense of “win/lose” that turns individuals into adversaries instead of brethren. But when the concept of ancestry is spiritualized, each one of us—throughout human history—can rightfully be regarded as a child of God, a member of His family. Therefore, each one is a vital part of Abraham’s kindred and covenant.
The great division between Jews and Muslims on this specific issue arises from differing interpretations regarding the principle of primogeniture. Among Hebrews, primogeniture was repeatedly set aside in favor of the view that God specifically chose a leader from each generation, rather than leaving the matter to birth order.
However, Muslims, who are the descendants of the first-born son of Abraham, Ishmael, hold a strict interpretation of primogeniture in this instance, and claim that the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael are entitled to the land. Those descendants are Arabs, and the land that they claim includes the territory known today as Israel.
This land has been called by several names throughout history.
This land actually has been called by several names throughout history. Before the Hebrew conquest, it was Canaan. Then it was renamed in honor of Abraham’s grandson Jacob, who received the new name, Israel, after his struggle with an angel of God at Peniel. Then in Roman times, cartographers noted several Philistine cities near the coast, and so they renamed the territory Palestine, “the land of the Philistines.”
While technology has improved this land’s value for agricultural purposes in recent times, it nevertheless remains a stony, semiarid territory. And it is also rather small. Other far more promising territories surrounding this land are oil rich and flourishing.
The land of Israel symbolically represents a treasury of spiritual inspiration to all three religions.
But the land of Israel symbolically represents a treasury of spiritual inspiration and strength to all three religions. To the Jews, it is the land of Abraham, Moses, and David; to the Christians, it is the land where Jesus lived and preached; to the Muslims it is the land promised to Abraham and through primogeniture, to his first-born son, Ishmael.
Century after century, the issues of ancestry and entitlement have been the impetus for war. And from this brief overview, it’s clear that the pattern of human history offers little hope for a future reconciliation among age-old enemies. Solutions can only come from a radically different perspective—that is, from a God’s-eye view of His creation.
So long as the discussion begins with disparate groups who demand rights to various claims and convictions, the situation will never end in unity. The discussion must begin with God and what He has created—each individual in every nation and culture in His own image. Not, ultimately, as mortals, but as spiritual beings, as must be the case with whatever reflects God, Spirit.
In God’s creation there is but one Parent and one family.
In this creation there is but one Parent and one family, one power, and one Love that is truly infinite, blessing everyone, all the time. No one is cast out, put down, forgotten, or oppressed in God’s sight. Such human perspectives have no standing with Him, and must eventually be seen for the distortion that they are. In limitless God there is limitless good and a unique place for every one of His children.
Mary Baker Eddy gave a clear explanation of this idea: “One infinite God, good, unifies men and nations; constitutes the brotherhood of man; ends wars; fulfils the Scripture, ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself;’ annihilates pagan and Christian idolatry,—whatever is wrong in social, civil, criminal, political, and religious codes; equalizes the sexes; annuls the curse on man, and leaves nothing that can sin, suffer, be punished or destroyed.” That “one infinite God” tends to it all.
Now all of this could be just brave talk and little else, unless as individuals we actually govern our lives by these truths. Aligning ourselves with peace—being “peacemakers”—aligns us with divine strength for daily life. And our prayers for those directly involved in the conflicts around the world gain authority and practicality to move events and transform lives. We can begin at the beginning—with God—and move in accordance with His grace and love. One step at a time.
BY Elaine Follis
Reprinted from the November 2006 issue of The Christian Science Journal.
Labels: Christians, God, Jews, love, Muslims
151 Comments:
I kick troll ass
And another one
AND another one
AND not even close...
By
Carl, at 7:04 AM
Lydia,
There are very few things to recommend the movie "Kingdom of Heaven," except this speech, which also explains why it was filmed...
"It has fallen to us, to defend Jerusalem, and we have made our preparations as well as they can be made. None of us took this city from Muslims. No Muslim of the great army now coming against us was born when this city was lost. We fight over an offence we did not give, against those who were not alive to be offended.
What is Jerusalem? Your holy palaces lie over the Jewish temple that the Romans pulled down. The Muslim places of worship lie over yours. Which is more holy? The wall? The Mosque? The Sepulchre? Who has claim? No one has claim. All have claim! "
By
Carl, at 7:07 AM
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS said...
So according to the right wing, its ok for actors to become republican Presidents, but not to voice their opinions that oppose republican presidents.
The logical extension of this theory is that no one should vote, since none of us have ever run for office...
By
Carl, at 7:10 AM
Looks like the idiot trolls will have a lot of distraction to do today;
Breaking: House To Schedule Straight Up-Or-Down Vote On Withdrawal Today
By Greg Sargent
Here's the latest on the back-room negotiations over the Iraq short-term funding bill House Dems are to vote on today: It looks as if for the first time, the House is also going to hold a straight up-or-down vote on whether to end the war.
Last night, Nancy Pelosi called a bunch of liberal members into a meeting and told them that she didn't have the votes to pass the bill, according to a source familiar with the meeting.
So she told the liberal members that in hopes of getting enough votes for passage, she would also schedule a vote on a bill crafted by Dem Rep. James McGovern, the source said.
McGovern's bill would mandate that within three months of passage, military withdrawal would have to commence, to be completed within six months of then. After that, the bill mandates, no Congressional money can be used for military operations -- though there's an allowance for certain types of special ops activities. McGovern's bill was introduced in the rules committee last night.
Here's why this is important. While the chances of passage of the measure are virtually nonexistent, it's the first time that House liberals have been able to leverage a straight yes-or-know vote on withdrawal. "It's huge," said one legislative aide. "It changes the dynamic. It means there will be more and more votes on straight measures like this."
Apparently there's some effort underway this morning to block this vote from coming to the floor, so it's still possible that it might not happen, but at any rate, it's a key development.
Meanwhile, the vote on the short-term spending measure is also set for today.
More to come...
Update: The McGovern bill mandating withdrawal is here. Again, this will not pass today. But it's significant both because it's the first straight, yes-or-no vote on withdrawal in the House, which means there will be more votes like these to come.
And it's also significant because it's the first time the liberal members have been able to use their clout to force a "vote on something they believe in," as one aide put it to me.
Update II: I also should have made it clearer that Dems think they now do have the votes to pass the short-term funding bill.
I bet the re-pubies HATE this because if they vote FOR more war they will have to defend it next year.......
But if they don't vote for MORE war, KKKarl will try to destroy their careers.
By
clif, at 7:21 AM
I wonder if the 11 republican congressmen, who went to the white house, to tell the chimp in chief he is screwing up so bad, they can no longer parrot his stupidity or spew it to the majority of the american people, will vote to keep Bush's stupid strategy for Bush's illegal war.....
especially since they just told Bush they couldn't defend him any more?
By
clif, at 7:23 AM
There's much to think about in there, and I think that this post does a lot towards explaining the danger of religion.
Faith is one thing, and religion is almost always something else entirely. Like the post points out, religion is almost always infused with some other, more native tradition. This also means that religion is susceptible to the infusion of hatreds from whoever is interpreting it.
What we've seen from our own home-grown "Jesusistanis" is the infusion of hate and faith. The hatemongers of Focus on the Family, the FRC, and other JEsusistan organizations have brought people together through mutual hatred-and those people are there largely because they need to hear someone saying that it's OK to hate other people. The FRC is the flip side of Al Qaeda.
By
Jolly Roger, at 7:36 AM
Clif,
I found it curious that Arlen Specter was the Senator who got Gates to make that rather startling admission that he did yesterday.
Methinks there's a mutiny underway...
By
Carl, at 8:28 AM
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
"Johnny MooMoo" is a Dungeons and Dragons geek!
"Maybe if SoE actually listened to the high end guilds more often and instead of what Johnny MooMoo lvl 41 Wizzy complaining that Mid lvl lower sux we need more boosting, and then just focusing on that lvl area (LoY anyone?). If they would just listen to ppl who have been playing the game for years and understand it better then they do. cause they obviously dont play, they wouldnt have this mass loss of player base (they claim isnt happening)"
Level 41, Widdle Wawwiow?
BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH
"I'm gonna cast a spell on you!"
By
Carl, at 8:33 AM
Excellent article, Lydia. Having studied the holy land and its peoples at some length, the history (from a Scriptural perspective only) is accurate. The things that bind the people of that region together are greater than those that separate them. Would that they would realize that.
Carl, wasn't that an excellent movie?
JR, it is not religion that is the danger. It is the people that misuse it to increase their own power.
By
TomCat, at 9:37 AM
JR, it is not religion that is the danger. It is the people that misuse it to increase their own power.
I wish I could agree with you, but religion and power are too fused for there to be any meaningful separation. Christ said the closet is where you can go to find Him. I'm inclined to believe that you're far better off heading for the closet than you are the church.
By
Jolly Roger, at 9:53 AM
Hi Lydia, Carl, Clif, Tom and Jolly!
So, are you ready for Impeachment?
The White House lied! Gonzo's testimony contradicts the White House stories about the attorney firings! It was a big coverup!
By
Suzie-Q, at 10:02 AM
It was a lie and cover up because Bush was involved in those attorney firings!
By
Suzie-Q, at 10:03 AM
Jolly Roger said...
Christ said the closet is where you can go to find Him
You make the best points with regards to religion and Christianity JR.
In fact, the "closet" referred to was actually a bathroom.
The King James translators translated the word to closet (Water Closet) and today most people think it meant a closet where you keep clothes.
But he really was talking about praying in the crapper.
Jesus was making a point.
When you do it, make do it in the most private of places.
And the crappers as private a place as you can get.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 10:33 AM
Suzie-Q said...
Hi Lydia, Carl, Clif, Tom and Jolly!
So, are you ready for Impeachment
I sure as hell am.
Of course, if the Democrats can't get their acts together and show some spine, its going to be a slow road.
At the end of the day, it might take the republicans to impeach their own president, so they can save their party.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 10:38 AM
As for the article Lydia posted, its interesting, but seems to have a religious axe to grind.
It does have a good message, but once again it is someone else telling us what God is like.
Which is the problem I believe with most religion.
Who's seen God? Who's talked with him, face to face? Out of all the religions out there the Mormons are the only ones who claim to have done this, and even their story falls apart on close introspection.
Mary Baker Eddy was a good women I am sure, and had great insight and spiritual conviction.
But it was her conviction.
Religion is to me the anti-thesis of spirituality. It calls people together to agree with one person on the nature and purpose of God.
Until someone comes along and tells me they have met with God, and have his plans written down on a celestial harddrive, then I will put their views and opinions into the melting pot with the literally THOUSANDS of of religious views, doctrine and dogma.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 10:54 AM
All Christianity, including Christian Science, was an offshoot of the original Catholic church at Rome.
At one time, there was a group of followers of Jesus who may have had direct ties to Christ, his gospel and teachings. They were called literally, "The Good Men", and they travelled about teaching of Christ, with no church, no fancy clothes,(usually dressed in black) no heirarchal structure other than the parfaits (priests) and few ordinances or rituals other than sacrament and baptism, both taught by Christ.
They simply taught the message of Christ, that is, to love God, you must love each other.
The "Good Men", or the Cathars were probably as close to the original travelling apostles as anyone since.
And the Catholic Church made sure they were all slaughtered.
In fact, they were one of the prime factors that led to the Suppression of Heresy as issued by Papal Bulla via Gregory the 9th, which led to the Holy Inquisitions.
The Catholic church made sure that no view, and no scriptures, other than the ones they selected or offered, would survive their bloody crusade. And none did.
The protestent religions of today, even the Mormons and the Christian Scientists, all built their relgions based on the handful of scriptures sanctioned and edited by the Catholic church.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 11:08 AM
I do not however disrespect peoples religions. (other than ragging on the Catholic Church) People gravitate to religions that support their own views and concepts.
I think it can be good, because it helps and comforts people, and who knows, maybe "one" of them is right.
Maybe one of them have it down.
But if I ever join a church, it will be one that has few answers, and LOTS of questions.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 11:14 AM
Great points, all of you!
By
Lydia Cornell, at 11:19 AM
Unity, Unitarian, Agape are more true to Christ's teaching of God as Love, with less ritual...
Christian Science is metaphysics, and actually is light years ahead of its time as it teaches Christ's lost healing miracles.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 12:03 PM
Just read Genesis 1. It's all Good. That's all you need to know about "God."
Not Genesis 2, when man fell under the mist of mortal illusion. That's an allegory which shows
All I can say is, I've experienced mind-boggling healing miracles, directly -- and the place I "found God" was in 12-step meetings, where two or more are gathered... all praying for the same thing.
Now Christian Science is just the scientific laws of "goodness" provable in the universe, based on Christ's teachings. It's the simplest yet most profound thing.
Until you've read it, don't knock it. It is not "religious." I also love Emmet Fox, the Unitarian minister who wrote th emost profound book I've ever read on Christ's Sermon on the mount.
The key is spiritual, not material.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 12:32 PM
Tensions among the followers of the three major monotheistic religions are front and center in the news headlines. But history shows that these tensions are nothing new — Christians, Jews, and Muslims have been battling one another for centuries. Each tradition values peace...
-Elaine Follis
LOL. If Ms. Follis believes that a vicious land-pirate name Muhammad was all about "peace", then obviously she needs to LEARN THE HISTORY.
On the contrary, Muslims must ignore the quran and the imams in order to be peaceful.
Might I helpfully suggest Understanding Islam and the Muslim Mind, by Ali Sina, a former Muslim from Iran.
By
Freedom Fan, at 12:35 PM
The Adam and Eve allegory with the serpent and man made from dust, etc, completely negates Genesis 1, where man is made in God's image.
The allegory talks about the "tree of knowledge of good and evil."
Don't you see it's not that Eve bit the apple and learned she was naked. It's that man suddenly started to believe in fear, death, danger, sickness and sin -- material laws, not spiritual laws.
The spiritual truth is above the material "false evidence appearing real."
All healing happens when you focus on the spiritual not the material. The spiritual truth of a situation, the goodness of a person (beneath the exterior terror or ugliness)... when you "let go and let God", when you put your eyes on God, not on "matter."
By
Lydia Cornell, at 12:37 PM
Even Einstein said "goodness, truth and beauty are laws of the universe."
By
Lydia Cornell, at 12:37 PM
What I'm trying to say is that no healing happens at its own level. You can't fight fire with fire.
You can't stop alcoholism with more alcohol or with some drug or medicine. It's a spiritual malady. There is a spiritual solution and healing happens when you look away from the problem and trust a "higher power."
People who have trouble believing in God, often get sober in 12-step programs because the fellowship is so loving. No matter how far down the scale one has gone, there is this forgiving love and power.
It works for every difficulty in life. Money, career, ego, cancer...
Absolutely everything can be healed when we are humble enough to stop controlling everything.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 12:46 PM
Lydia said...
Until you've read it, don't knock it. It is not "religious."
Well I have read "Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures" Lydia, and I found it to be like any other religious doctrine I've read.
One person expounding on the nature of God for the rest of mankind.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 1:13 PM
The Christian Science faith meets regularly on Sunday (don't they know the Sabbath was on Saturday?) and while their services tend to me more humble and lay clergy oriented, they still have services, and some rituals, like bi annual sacrament and the elections or removal of the Board of Directors who run the church. They have money, wealth and power, and they operate from a 14 acre estate in Boston, full of fine buildings and ornate pools and symbolism.
I'm sorry Lydia, I am not "condemning" Christian science. In fact, it is one of the least offensive of the religious breakoffs from Catholicism that exists today.
But at the end of the day, they're still just another religion to me.
I don't buy the healing powers stuff. If it worked, then the members wouldn't get sick and die. In fact, I well remember back in the late 80's when I was investigating this religion along with many others, that there were criminal cases involving Christian Science members, who LET THEIR KIDS DIE, instead of getting them proper medical treatment.
All because someone told them that God would heal them.
And then the members blame the kids deaths on the lack of faith of the children and their parents.
Thats REAL Lydia.
And that happened.
Sorry, but to me, the closer we move to someone ELSES idea of God, the further we move from him.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 1:23 PM
If someone is telling a member of my family to not seek medical treatment, but instead let a bunch of people pray for them, and use their natural healing efforts to save them, I'm gonna tell that person to get the hell out of my house, and away from my family.
The fact that those children died, because of a "belief system", should be enough to steer the thinking person away from embracing it too closely.
When kids die because of mom and dads church, then its time to get a new church.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 1:27 PM
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS said...
I do not however disrespect peoples religions. (other than ragging on the Catholic Church) People gravitate to religions that support their own views and concepts."
Or that give them a sense of purpose and make them feel like cogs in the machine...........its really the same reason all the sheep feel the need to rush into marriage before they are ready...............because they "SOMEHOW" feel that is what they are "SUPPOSED" to do........thats why the divorce rate has been rising steadily
Far more evil is done in the name of Organized religion than good in my opinion!
By
Mike, at 1:28 PM
clif said...
I wonder if the 11 republican congressmen, who went to the white house, to tell the chimp in chief he is screwing up so bad, they can no longer parrot his stupidity or spew it to the majority of the american people, will vote to keep Bush's stupid strategy for Bush's illegal war.....
especially since they just told Bush they couldn't defend him any more?"
Lets hope GWB and Rove didnt threaten or blackmail them to get them to fall back in line..........that always seems to happen whenever ANY repugs speak out against Bush or Rove!
By
Mike, at 1:31 PM
Jolly Roger said...
There's much to think about in there, and I think that this post does a lot towards explaining the danger of religion.
Faith is one thing, and religion is almost always something else entirely. Like the post points out, religion is almost always infused with some other, more native tradition. This also means that religion is susceptible to the infusion of hatreds from whoever is interpreting it."
That is true, religion as interpretted by men "IS" always subject to the infusion of hate and therein lies the problem for all the sheeple who blindly follow orders or are told what to think by others!
By
Mike, at 1:34 PM
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS said...
Suzie-Q said...
Hi Lydia, Carl, Clif, Tom and Jolly!
So, are you ready for Impeachment
I sure as hell am.
Of course, if the Democrats can't get their acts together and show some spine, its going to be a slow road.
At the end of the day, it might take the republicans to impeach their own president, so they can save their party."
Disapointing isnt it.......what was the interogation of Gonzalez supposed to be for if they DIDNT ask him to resign or impeach him.........several weals ago 99% of the repugs were asking for Gonzalez's resignation or impeachment...........NOW the Democrats just back off and waste all that political capital and allow an incompetent partsisan criminal to REMAIN in office...........its insane!
By
Mike, at 1:37 PM
Mike said...
Far more evil is done in the name of Organized religion than good in my opinion
I don't know about whether the evil outweighs the good, thats a hard inventory to gauge.
But we're on the same page, cause one things for sure.
More evil has been done because of organized religion than any other single cause in the history of mankind.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 1:47 PM
Lydia!
Don't freak out on me now, lol.
I am not condemning your religion, its just you know if you're going to post religious writings, I'm probably going to toss my two cents worth in.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 2:15 PM
You're missing the whole point Worf. For people who know the spiritual key it REALLY works. Most of us aren't ready for it yet. I am so tired of hearing about how they dont' believe in doctors, etc. That's an old story. There are no laws. Just degrees of understanding.
And flawed surgeries or bad medicine has killed countless people. I use both. I think God sometimes works through doctors. C.S. is not about any rules or regulations, just amazing grace and teachings of Christ about HOW he healed. You have never studied it or you wouldn't say these things. Just get the Journal and read a few of the testimonies. It's light-years ahead of "mortal, primitive" thought.
But it has been the most miraculous, very private, very internal and most natural kind of prayer imaginable.
There's no way you are ready for that leap of faith, nor are most people able to comprehend it.
But Jesus was and commanded us to. And I have over 40 miracles in my own life, that have no other explanation. It's actually wrong to call them miracles, they are God's (good's) natural laws.
You can't use your intellect to understand. Just like the 12-steps. You must leave your intellect at the door.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 2:19 PM
I don't have a religion.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 2:20 PM
I follow Christ, who did not like any religiosity.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 2:21 PM
Lydia said...
There's no way you are ready for that leap of faith,
Thats right.
I'm just a poor dumb heathen.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 2:25 PM
Lydia said...
You have never studied it or you wouldn't say these things.
Well I guess I'm now just not a poor dumb heathen, but a liar too?
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 2:27 PM
Lydia said....
But Jesus was and commanded us to.
He did?
Religious interpretation sold as absolutism doesn't cut it with me Lydia.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 2:29 PM
Lydia said...
You can't use your intellect to understand.
Just like the 12-steps.
You must leave your intellect at the door.
And there it is.
The one single ingredient, necessary in ALL religious conversion.
It is the CRUX of all dogma.
Leave your intellect, at the door.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 2:31 PM
Sorry, mine was attached to my head at birth.
By
BLOGNAZI WORFEUS, at 2:31 PM
Breaking news.
Coling Powells former Cheif of Staff is CALLING FOR IMPEACHMENT OF THE PRESIDENT!!!
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 2:41 PM
That's a good reminder. Unfortunately, all it takes is a significant minority of Jews, Muslims, and Christians who see God as "their Man" entitling them to dictate terms rather than confer as members of one family, to keep the Mideast in turmoil.
And of course now we've got the helping hand of the Cheney-Bush administration stirring the pot.
By
Paul, at 2:42 PM
Sorry Lydia but a persons INTELLECT is deeply tied to the 12 steps and anybody who tries to say different is just plain wrong.
In fact the twelve steps won't work until a persons intellect can recognize just how bad they have fallen, and that they have NO control what ever over their situation as long as they continue down their path of personal self destruction.
In fact before a person ACCEPTS the first step, they are being anti intellect, believing they CAN control their world,
it is the loss of faith in their delusion which is the spark which allows the first step to work.
And REALITY to break through.
By
clif, at 2:46 PM
See Lydia, its like this.
I believe (thats right, I said believe, we all have beliefs) that God gave us our "intellect".
Religion has been teaching for thousands of years that our intellect is evil, and not of God.
Religion teaches man to fear his own ability to think, reason and examine.
Christian "Science", if it suggest you must leave your intellect at the door, should change its name. Because science is the anti-thesis of religion.
Science teaches us to learn, and use the logic and reason God gave us. And when we do, we walk on the moon and cure disease.
When we don't, ignorance I believe creeps in, and leaves us at the mercy of happenstance, coincidence and random luck.
Any religion (or belief system if you prefer) that teaches a person to "leave their intellect at the door", should itself be left at the door.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 2:48 PM
God gave mankind intellect.
And I think its a sin not to use it. Of course I know you DO use your intellect, but I worry sometimes when I hear you say such things. I believe you've had miracles in your life, however many people do.
Look at the "Parable of the Talents" again, only this time, think of the magnificant brain God endowed on mankind while you're reading it.
It will open a whole new door.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 2:50 PM
I don't mean that kind of intellect, I mean the kind that gets in the way of the heart.
One thing about 12-step meetings: it is the great leveler. I see an MIT professor in there who couldn't reason his way out of drinking, but when he gave up reasoning and fighting, the solution came.
What I'm saying is, trust your heart. The kingdom is within you, and each person can decide for himself whether to be ruled by love or fear.
The power of love really does heal everything.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 2:51 PM
Sorry Lydia but it is NOT intellect which gets in the way of the 12 steps,
BUT Pride.....
By
clif, at 2:52 PM
or EGO if you will
By
clif, at 2:53 PM
Fundamentalists, moonies and cults ask that you believe in another human's ideas about "God."
Often I will sit and worry and manipulate and stew about how to get out of a problem, or argue endlessly with someone when I know I'm right. But the answer always comes when I stop pushing my self-will on others, stop arguing, and just be very quiet. Then solutions come from deep within.
In other words, it's not human nature and doesn't make intellectual sense to "love your enemies or not fight your enemies."
If there was ever a divine concept, this is it. It comes from love, which is not exactly an intellectual concept.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 2:56 PM
Any person who seeks out help from a 12 step program is by definition being self destructive which is ANTI-RATIONAL.
which means they are refusing to use their intellect as God intended if you will.....
By
clif, at 2:56 PM
Religion has for thousands of years taught us that the mind is evil.
Religion silenced great men like Galileo, Capernicus and Darwin.
In our own country today religion is tearing at the very fabric of our scientific community, trying to stifle research and the spread of knowledege while convincing people that scientific fact like evolution, or global warming are not real.
I know you don't close your mind, and I know you are not brainwashed so don't take offense at these things I've written here today.
I think that you do good, and I think you use your head more than most. You're not afraid to ask questions, and you're not afraid to look at new data, and you're not afraid to "change your mind" on issues, which is the KEY to all true knowledge.
Sometimes we just disagree. This is one of them.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 2:56 PM
Lydia said...
In other words, it's not human nature and doesn't make intellectual sense to "love your enemies or not fight your enemies."
If there was ever a divine concept, this is it. It comes from love, which is not exactly an intellectual concept
Mee thinks you make a strong point.
In fact, thats an excellent point.
Of course, if you look closer, you'll see that it DOES often make sense to love your enemies, and work with them, instead of trying to fight every minor advance in your direction.
To me, it IS logical. And to me, I see REASON in Jesus's words there.
But I do see your point. At times, and to many people, there is no logic in this scripture.
But to a reasoning person, there is.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:01 PM
Yes, EGO: "Edging God Out"
Worf, I'm not saying what you think I'm saying. I am not judging you, just telling the truth, and if you'll note I said I am not ready all the way either. It's amazing to open these doors and it takes a leap of open-mindedness.
I am positive you don't believe in The Secret either, as we've spoken before about metaphysics and you've always been very closed to it, very set in your ways.
That's fine. But I love Herbert Spencer's quote: "There is nothing that will keep a man in everlasting ignorance so much as contempt prior to investigation."
If you really read and study this "new thought" then you can comment. It's like me condemning something I heard gossip about without unbiased research on my own.
By the way, Christ did command us to do all these things he did.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:02 PM
Lydia Cornell said...
It comes from love, which is not exactly an intellectual concept.
Thats another really good point.
Love certainly cannot be likened to logic in many cases, or reason.
And I will concede that point.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:02 PM
Lydia Cornell said...
Worf, I'm not saying what you think I'm saying. I am not judging you
Hmmmmm.... I'd have an easier time accepting that if you hadn't said this next.
you've always been very closed to it, very set in your ways.
That's fine. But I love Herbert Spencer's quote: "There is nothing that will keep a man in everlasting ignorance so much as contempt prior to investigation."
:D
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:05 PM
By the way, none of this made sense to me either until I went back to it after getting sober and staying sober for 10 years. Then I started to wonder why the religions of Christianity had so many flaws and lost the healing miracles.
I took a class and it has been moving me foreward through obstacles that used to seem very real -- in amazing ways.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:05 PM
I have told you now several times that I investigated Christian Science back in my 20's, when I investigated MANY religions, including Mormonism, Judaism and the Mennonites.
I studied it. I even prayed about it.
Yet because you are so convinced that I must not have studied it in order to say the things that I say, you conclude that I must not have studied it, ignoring my repeated statements to the contrary.
In that respect, you've closed your mind to my words.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:08 PM
Lydia Cornell said...
By the way, none of this made sense to me either until I went back to it after getting sober and staying sober for 10 years.
Well I'm sober.
Maybe it would make more sense if I got drunk?
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:10 PM
Well I never understood it until I took a 12 day class and boy were my eyes opened.
When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:10 PM
By sober I mean spiritually sober. There is a magic energy in 12-step meetings that I've never found in church or anywhere else. There is so much joy in these rooms because of the humanity and democratic aspect.
There are no dues, fees or leaders either.
Just one drunk talking to another.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:13 PM
Lydia Cornell said...
Well I never understood it until I took a 12 day class and boy were my eyes opened.
Well, I refuse to believe that anyone needs a class to find God.
As for studying it, as I said, I didn't just study it, I 'investigated' it. That means more than reading, it means being "taught" by the elders, and attending services.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:13 PM
Or one "sinner" talking to another.
I don't believe in the word "sinner" the way fundamentalists do.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:14 PM
Lydia Cornell said...
When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
Well THAT might freak me out.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:14 PM
Come on Lydia, I'm giving you my best stuff here.
Try to laugh a little.
:D
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:15 PM
Lydia the EGO is NOT rational nor does it exist in the rational intellect of US,
in fact the ego is almost the antithesis of rational or intellectual thought.
In fact most "egotistical" people are out of their minds, which is a way of saying they ain't thinking none too straight.
By
clif, at 3:16 PM
You know what the biggest problem I have with organized religion Lyd?
The fact that everyone outside of their religion, is somehow less close to God, or even damned.
That doesn't say much for God, now does it?
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:17 PM
We are so mired in duality, it is hard to grasp metaphysics. But the discussion of these ideas was the most amazing thing I've ever been through.
The idea that all is good and there is no opposing force.
I already "found" God (love is already here, we just have to uncover it)
It was a new view and a way to conquer human problems that unfolded in this class.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:18 PM
But I would be remiss if I did not point out that if this were a right wing blog, like Coulters, we'd never get away with questioning or debating the Blog author on her religion (oops, belief system).
Thats why I came here in the first place. Because no matter what, you keep an open mind, and allow all voices to be heard. Which is a true Christian virtue.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:20 PM
It's so simple: love one another.
Clif - you're right about the ego!
And Worf, I am laughing at the jokes, thank you.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:25 PM
Thanks Worf!! I always love your mind, and love our religious discussions.
I don't have any rigid beliefs actually; life is a wonderful mystery and I'm a work in progress.
But one thing I know for sure now... the force of love is the most powerful force and it is creative not destructive
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:40 PM
Clif, that was very interesting way of putting it: SELF-DESTRUCTIVE, or destructive of self.
Actually, like the analogy to electricity, when plugging into an electric socket you can read at night, once you get your ego out of the way (the ego that says "I am all powerful," and humble yourself enough to believe there might be a power greater than yourself out there, and depend on a higher power, you are able to be MORE of an individual. More of your true gifts come out, and you can do more things because you are in the flow of harmony in the universe.
Unlike George Bush who is operating against the flow of nature.
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:48 PM
Lydia Cornell said...
But one thing I know for sure now... the force of love is the most powerful force and it is creative not destructive
You gotta love love.
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 3:51 PM
Hey, what happened with Gonzales?
Did I miss something?
By
Lydia Cornell, at 3:56 PM
Hey, what happened with Gonzales?
Yes he LIED to congress again, under oath.
By
clif, at 4:06 PM
Rudy explains himself
By
clif, at 4:17 PM
Lydia dies one day, and wakes up at the pearly gates.
She is greeted by God, who invites her into the kingdom of heaven with him. She goes in and God and her proceed to have a fantastic discussion about her life, the mysteries of the universe, etc.
Eventually Lydia gets a little hungry, and asks God if theres anything to eat. God replies he'll fix her something, and heads off into the kitchen.
Lydia is naturally excited to see what sumptuous and lavish spread will be served to her in heaven and her mind wanders with thoughts of cavier, swordfish and other delicious foods.
Finally God returns with a paper plate, and hands Lydia a bologna and cheese sandwich and a glass of milk.
Lydia takes the sandwich looking somewhat confused. "Is this it she says? I don't mean to complain but I was sort of expecting more".
God looks at her and replies "well, I didn't feel like cooking for just the two of us".
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 4:56 PM
The house just passed another bill to fund the troops which the gutless wonder in the White House says he will veto;
I wonder why Bush doesn't want to fund the troops?
After all, two times they have given him the money he asked for.....
By
clif, at 5:01 PM
I wonder why Bush is such a big baby about trying to get HIS way on His total failure in Iraq, you'd think after more than four years of abject failure and incompetence the widdle id-jet would get a clue and come out of his self imposed bubble and LISTEN to the american people he is supposed to WORK for.
By
clif, at 5:03 PM
Lydia dies one day, and wakes up at the pearly gates.
She is greeted by God, who invites her into the kingdom of heaven with him and proceeds to give her a tour. They go to rooms where they can see the earth, other worlds etc.
Then they come to one room, thats filled with clocks. There are literally trillions of clocks. Under each clock is a persons name. "whats with all the clocks" asks Lydia.
God says, "well, thats how we record peoples sins. Each time someone sins, the hands on their clock move one notch".
"ohhhh, I see" says Lydia.
"yes, I see Clifs, and theres Mikes, and theres Larry's, and mine, ... hey wait...
Wheres Worfeus's clock?" she asks.
God turns to her and says, "oh we keep that one in the kitchen...we're using it for a fan".
By
ANTIPIOUS WORFEUS, at 5:06 PM
Very FUNNY Worf!!!
xo
By
Lydia Cornell, at 5:09 PM
Worfues mine would be called a turbo in heaven...
they could hold it over their heads and fly with it.
By
clif, at 5:14 PM
Hi Lydia!
Great article you posted today and of course, love is everything in this world, isn't it? People who spew hate are miserable individuals. Misery loves company..
We need more love in this world! ;)
By
Suzie-Q, at 5:33 PM
Hi Clif and Worf!
Funny jokes guys!
LOL
By
Suzie-Q, at 5:34 PM
Olberman just PUNKED Gonzo, with a side by side duet of Gonzo in April and today before congress,
interesting he repeated the very same learned LIES word for word.
Very surreal clip which will make U tube at least.
By
clif, at 5:37 PM
Thanks Clif! I'll have to look for that in youtube. ;)
By
Suzie-Q, at 5:39 PM
Worf:
Is that the REAL you in your avatar?
LOL
By
Suzie-Q, at 5:40 PM
Clif:
Gonzo rehearsed all of those lies over and over... he probably believes them now!
By
Suzie-Q, at 5:43 PM
Thanks Clif! I'll have to look for that in you Thanks Clif! I'll have to look for that in youtube. ;)tube. ;)
S-Q, countdown re