WAR IS NOT PEACE * DIPLOMACY IS NOT APPEASEMENT
Deborah Van Valkenburgh (who played my sister Jackie on Too Close for Comfort) in this poster from "The Warriors."JOHN DEAN, author of "Conservatives Without Conscience" on BASHAM RADIO TODAY August 17!! Check for times at:
Just found this eye-opening post by JHBUCK at ThorninUrASSumptions
"There is no justification for the loss of 26 hundred of America's highest hopes for the future. Don't feed me this crap about possible adverse effects if we leave Iraq now. I can pull the same time machine out and predict that if we bring everyone home right now, someone whose life gets saved by the withdrawal will cure diabetes. Someone who gets saved by the withdrawal will adopt children who otherwise will be homeless. People can be heroic by living to their fullest potential. Yes, our soldiers are heroes. But so are loving parents. And so are generous friends. And so are honest business people. Why is it vogue right now to be a hero because you are dead? Because an insane "war room" (at the Pentagon) decided to sacrifice lives with no foreseeable end? Isn't this the time for Denzel or Tommy Lee Jones to come out of the background and relieve Mr. Bush of duty? Why is war policy even allowed to be controlled by such a measurable minority? What happened to the idea of politicians representing us in their mountaintop offices? Condi is a parrot. She is having the most brazen affair through sharing power with the man. She is smarter than him, but she says his words. What's wrong with this picture? It's disgusting, that's what!
It's CRIMINAL that's what!! (these are Lydia's words)
Also, please read a brilliant post below (at bottom) by Jude Nagurney Camwell. But first, these enlightening words from one of the world's great spiritual leaders:
"We should remember that the world is wide; that there are a thousand million different human wills, opinions, ambitions, tastes, and loves; that each person has a different history, constitution, culture, character, from all the rest...
Then, we should go forth into life with the smallest expectations, but with the largest patience; with a keen relish for and appreciation for everything beautiful, great and good — but with a temper so genial that the friction of the world shall not wear upon our sensibilities...with a charity broad enough to cover the whole world's evil, and sweet enough to neutralize what is bitter in it, — determined not to be offended when no wrong is meant, nor even when it is, unless the offense be against God (Love, Truth, Life.) Nothing short of our own errors should offend us. He who can wilfully attempt to injure another, is an object of pity rather than of resentment." - Mary Baker Eddy
And of course, we heal our enemies, and take the fight out of them by returning love for hate: by actually NOT fighting them on their terms (with equal violence) but by withdrawing from the fight, seeing them as tragically misguided children of God who desperately need a new view of themselves. Once we remove ourselves from the hotbed, they are left with no one to fight. We disarm them with love. (This doesn't mean we have to personally like these guys, but we must view them differently in order for a change to take place. You can't fight someone who doesn't fight back.
******************************************************
Posted by Jude Nagurney Camwell in reply to Tall Texan's posting of the article calling European countries cowards and appeasers:
"Diplomacy is not appeasement, but Bush's favorite neocons don't want anyone to examine the vast difference.
George never looked Saddam in the eye - not once - before going in and making this mess in Iraq. The opportunity was there, but George wouldn't do it. Why? Because he is a fundamentalist in every sense of the word.
A fundamentalist is "never wrong." Religious and political fundamentalism is characterized by rigidity, domination, and exclusion. Fundamentalists are convinced that they are right and anyone who contradicts them is evil. The fundamentalist feels that they have a unique relationship with God - and that they actually speak for God. When there are serious differences between the U.S. and other nations, we cannot brand those who differ as pariahs or inferiors worthy of despise - yet fundamentalism in foreign policy tends to do just that. It leaves no room for discussing of ideas or for compromise.
George has an opportunity to talk directly with Syria and Iran reagrding South Lebanon. He will not do it. He is following the pattern of assured war by doing so. He is following the pattern of assured war by sitting back (immoral in his failure to speak out) while children die at the hands of a brutal aggressor. When children perish in such a manner, there is no moral person in this world who sees it as "self-defense."
From a non-fundamentalist point of view, when Jesus told us to 'love our enemies,' I really don't think he meant "go and kill them."
Great strength in leadership is found in those who will not rule out any possibility in the pursuit of political goals. Unfortunately, George only wants to use firepower to achieve his goals, neglecting the rule of law and human rights that have been set down in stone for us to see since the days of Hammurabi. George missed some very important lessons in leadership while he partied down and guzzled brew and f**ked up every business he ever had his grubby hands in. Our nation suffers for his weakness." - Jude Nagurney Camwell
LOVE & PEACE! xo, Lydia 2006
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"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
Here is the commercial-free unedited version of the radio show I did in June for Doug Basham's Progressive Talk in Vegas. Doug is one of my favorite people and a fantastic, brilliant host!
posted by Lydia Cornell at
1:30 PM
438 Comments:
EUROPE - THY NAME IS COWARDICE
(Commentary by Mathias Dapfner CEO, Axel Springer, AG)
A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe - your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true. Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives, as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.
Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe, where for decades, inhuman suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.
Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.
Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European Appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.
Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush . Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt UN. Oil-for-Food program.
And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement. How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic Fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany?
I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists. One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolph Hitler and declaring European "Peace in our time".
What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.
It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness. Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for Anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush.
His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against Democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.
In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.
On the contrary - we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes.
Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass.
For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy - because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake - literally everything.
While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek or our dental coverage, or our 4 weeks of paid vacation ... Or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists. To understand and forgive".
These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house.
Appeasement?
Europe, thy name is Cowardice.
http://auntybelles.blogspot.com/2006/07/scared-german-speaks-to-america.html
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TalllTexan, at 8:42 PM
Oh and cliffy?
Back talking to authority IS NOT "turning the other cheek" no matter how you try to spin it.
(unless of course you're actually TRYING to get the other cheek smitten as well...)
"...who have to be weak because otherwise they will be hard and cruel; for they have to cure the harsher by the gentler forms of egoism."
Actually cliffy, I kinda had you pegged for the above.
Thats also probably why you found a WWII deserter so appealing when you had your great epiphany.
Hey but don't let me hassle you on that one though, it could've been MUCH worse.
You could've had your epiphany over the Rosenbergs or something....
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Voltron, at 9:00 PM
"Lydia Cornell said...
CLIF - Stay strong Clif, all these unkind people are just miserable and jealous, so they have to undermine the good. They would never have the courage to actually go to a war zone or put their neck on the line. Only those who have been to war or seen bloodshed up close, have the compassion and courage to say, WAR IS WRONG. It is unnatural.
This is how evil works. Don't give them any power.
10:46 PM"
"Lydia Cornell said...
CLIF - Stay strong Clif, all these unkind people are just miserable and jealous, so they have to undermine the good. They would never have the courage to actually go to a war zone or put their neck on the line. Only those who have been to war or seen bloodshed up close, have the compassion and courage to say, WAR IS WRONG. It is unnatural.
This is how evil works. Don't give them any power.
I am posting a new item so the server doesn't slow down.
7:27 PM"
WOW! Clif is SO insecure that Lyd has a standard "pat on the back" form all filled out for him....LOL
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Voltron, at 9:08 PM
Bush is still the bubble boy
by Joe in DC - 8/16/2006 10:49:00 PM
The White House is pretending that Bush is out among the people...learning and stuff. But Froomkin knows better:
I've written a fair amount about the Bush Bubble over the past nearly three years. And it seems to me that, with a tiny handful of exceptions, the bubble is still fully operational.
When it comes to Iraq in particular, Bush has no interest in engaging in genuine dialogue with people who disagree with him -- even though polls suggest those people now represent a large majority of the American public.
He has no interest in actually arguing the merits of his approach, or substantively defending against the increasingly focused critique by congressional Democrats.
Rather, he describes his approach in platitudes, and uses inflated rhetoric to mock the made-up arguments of imaginary opponents. He counts on the skillful use of imagery and human backdrops to deliver his very simple core message -- "I am protecting you" -- without actually making his case.
He hides behind the presidency.
Brilliant analysis of the situation. Every member of the press corps who covers Bush must know this to be true. Yet, they dutifully report that Bush is reaching out....or that he is engaged...or some other talking point foisted on them by the White House staff. They live in their own bubble.
Bush is a disaster. He has no concept of reality. And, a lot of people have died -- and will die -- because of his failed presidency.
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/08/bush-is-still-bubble-boy.html
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clif, at 10:14 PM
Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery.
Hardly since it still reigned supreme when Bush 41 took the oath of Office in 1989........the Berlin wall did not come down until Bush was in office for a while and the Soviet Union did not implode until Dec 1991..three years after Reagan left office...
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clif, at 10:18 PM
Bush is crap, says Prescott
Deputy PM criticises US handling of Middle East, condemning 'cowboy' President at private meeting
By Colin Brown, Deputy Political Editor
Published: 17 August 2006
John Prescott has given vent to his private feelings about the Bush presidency, summing up George Bush's administration in a single word: crap.
The Deputy Prime Minister's condemnation of President Bush and his approach to the Middle East could cause a diplomatic row but it will please Labour MPs who are furious about Tony Blair's backing of the United States over the bombing of Lebanon.
The remark is said to have been made at a private meeting in Mr Prescott's Whitehall office on Tuesday with Muslim MPs and other Labour MPs with constituencies representing large Muslim communities. Muslim MPs wanted to press home their objections to British foreign policy and discuss ways of improving relations with the Muslim communities.
Some of the MPs present said yesterday they could not remember Mr Prescott making the remark. He has been at pains to avoid breaking ranks with Mr Blair in public although he is believed to have raised concern about the bombing of Lebanon at a private meeting of the Cabinet. But Harry Cohen, the MP whose constituency includes Walthamstow, scene of some of the police raids in the alleged "terror plot" investigation, said Mr Prescott had definitely used the word "crap" about the Bush administration.
"He was talking in the context of the 'road map' in the Middle East. He said he only gave support to the war on Iraq because they were promised the road map. But he said the Bush administration had been crap on that. We all laughed and he said to an official, 'Don't minute that'." Mr Cohen added: "We also had a laugh when he said old Bush is just a cowboy with his Stetson on. But then he said, 'I can hardly talk about that can I?'
Told that others at the meeting could not recall the words, Mr Cohen said: " He did. I stand by that."
The Deputy Prime Minister's office said last night that the meeting was private and would not confirm or deny his use of the word "crap". " These discussions are intended to be private and remain within the four walls," said one official. "They are private so that there may be frank discussions."
Many Labour MPs have been infuriated by the spectacle of Mr Bush and Mr Blair jointly supporting the Israeli action. The Labour MPs went to see Mr Prescott to lodge their criticism of the Government's foreign policy and some said last night that they would be delighted if he did break ranks over the Bush administration following the outcry at the bombing of the Lebanon.
In the private discussions with Mr Prescott, the Labour MPs representing large Muslim communities pulled no punches in their criticism of Mr Blair for giving his backing to Mr Bush. Another of those who was contacted about the conversations did not deny Mr Prescott's words, but laughed and said: " I can't discuss that." When asked whether he had heard Mr Prescott use the "C-word", he said: "I don't remember that."
The Deputy Prime Minister is said to have made it clear he strongly backed the efforts by Mr Blair to persuade the Bush administration to revive the road map for Palestine and Israel. Mr Blair has given a commitment that he will give the peace process his priority when he returns from his holiday in the Caribbean.
"There was a very robust exchange of views," said the MP. " We had a row about community relations. The Deputy Prime Minister was told in no uncertain terms that the Government was relying too much on the elders in the Muslim community who didn't have the credibility that was needed."
Muslim Labour MPs also told Mr Prescott that they needed to retain their own credibility in their communities, which was one of the reasons why they had signed a controversial letter calling for a change in British foreign policy. They said it was not helpful for the Government to have attacked their letter.
Mr Prescott has been accused in the past of making his feelings known about the Republican administration in the White House. He became friendly with Al Gore, the unsuccessful Democrat presidential candidate in 2000, during the negotiations on the Kyoto treaty and allegedly told Mr Gore after his defeat that he was sorry he lost the race to Mr Bush.
Mr Prescott is also known to have used the word "crap" in relation to political events before. Earlier this month, he angrily rejected claims that he could resign over the row about his links to the bid by the tycoon Philip Anschutz for a super-casino at the Millennium Dome as "a load of crap".
Mr Prescott was left in charge by Mr Blair when the Prime Minister went on his delayed holiday but has largely taken a back seat while John Reid, the Home Secretary, has led for the Government on security and the alleged terror plot to blow up planes across the Atlantic.
Behind the scenes, Mr Prescott had to contend with growing backbench demands for Parliament to be recalled to debate the crisis in the Middle East. It remains an option, in spite of the ceasefire in the Lebanon. Campaigners claimed they had the signatures of more than 150 MPs from all parties for a recall. Significantly, they included Ann Keen, the parliamentary private secretary to Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, who is on paternity leave following the birth of his second child. Jim Sheridan, the Labour MP for Paisley and Renfrewshire North, resigned as the parliamentary private secretary to the defence ministers over the bombing of Lebanon.
Mr Prescott has been keen to show Labour MPs that he is prepared to listen to their grievances but has insisted on party discipline to avoid splits. He will be furious at his alleged remarks being repeated, but the signs of dissent within the Cabinet are becoming greater.
Straight-talker's way with words
* Posing with a crab in a jar at the Millennium Dome, while Peter Mandelson was standing for election to Labour's ruling national executive committee, he said to cameramen: "You know what his name is? He's called Peter. Do you think you will get on the executive, Peter?"
* When asked why a car was transporting him and his wife 200 yards to the Labour Party Conference in 1999:
"Because of the security reasons for one thing and second, my wife doesn't like to have her hair blown about. Have you got another silly question?"
* On the Millennium Dome: "If we can't make this work, we're not much of a government."
* "The green belt is a Labour achievement, and we mean to build on it." (Radio interview, January 1998)
* On the Tories at the 1996 Labour conference: "They are up to their necks in sleaze. The best slogan for their conference next week is " Life's better under the Tories" - sounds like one of Steven Norris's chat-up lines."
* When asked by a journalist about Peter Law's decision to quit the Labour Party after 35 years: "Why are you asking me about this? I don't care, it's a Welsh situation, I'm a national politician."
John Prescott has given vent to his private feelings about the Bush presidency, summing up George Bush's administration in a single word: crap.
The Deputy Prime Minister's condemnation of President Bush and his approach to the Middle East could cause a diplomatic row but it will please Labour MPs who are furious about Tony Blair's backing of the United States over the bombing of Lebanon.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1219716.ece
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clif, at 10:20 PM
Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.
Yes, Bill Clinton did take the reigns, even when the repugs howled and squawked all about it.....but Clinton stuck to his approach which allowed Wesley Clark to follow the plan to "free Kosovo" form the terror of Milosevic
How nice of you to point that out Tiny inTellect
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clif, at 10:26 PM
Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe, where for decades, inhuman suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities
I never knew Churchill who approved Yalta was so soft......
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clif, at 10:29 PM
Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush
Well since Reagan and Bush 41 coddled Saddam during thius time even selling him weapons. In fact the first time any real action to STOP Saddam was taken was when he challanged the system in the middle east which favored the multinational oil corp's by taking Kuwait and cutting off their profits there....
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clif, at 10:31 PM
For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy - because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake - literally everything.
At least he realises Bush has undermined the future of the American economy
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clif, at 10:32 PM
Back talking to authority IS NOT "turning the other cheek" no matter how you try to spin it.
Yes it is son it was one of the techniques that gave Ghandi his power...he talked back to the British...and acted in non violent ways which made him more dangerous but less prosecutable..
Martin L King did the same here...and was quite successful hrer also
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clif, at 10:41 PM
"...who have to be weak because otherwise they will be hard and cruel; for they have to cure the harsher by the gentler forms of egoism."
Actually cliffy, I kinda had you pegged for the above.
Thats also probably why you found a WWII deserter so appealing when you had your great epiphany.
**No son I just realised that in some ways the people who carry out the regulations in many wars do about the same things...which means we can be just as bad if we allow ourselves to be...and abu Ghraib is PROOF of that
Hey but don't let me hassle you on that one though, it could've been MUCH worse.
You could've had your epiphany over the Rosenbergs or something....
Sorry son they did give some things away but the real traitor was British which the FBI never caught, and since they were NEVER part of an Combat operation like the trolls here I would not expect you to understand that reality.
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clif, at 10:48 PM
Dolty boy said;
"This pity is a weakness of the mind and senses,--a weakness which may well be beneficial to men of a lower grade of development, who have to be weak because otherwise they will be hard and cruel; for they have to cure the harsher by the gentler forms of egoism."
sorry son that does not apply to me....but the chicken hawks might find something in there about weakness of mind or fortitude
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clif, at 10:48 PM
Even the Paula Jones law suit is coming back to bite the repugs in the ass, too funny;
Plame lawyer plans to force Cheney, Rove testimony
LOS ANGELES, Aug 15 - A lawyer plans to use a legal precedent that allowed President Bill Clinton to be sued while in office to force Vice President Dick Cheney and presidential adviser Karl Rove to testify in a lawsuit brought by former CIA operative Valerie Plame and her husband.
California attorney Joseph Cotchett said he will ask a federal court to order Cheney, his ex-chief of staff Lewis "Scooter" Libby and Rove to testify in depositions about their role in disclosing her classified status.
The civil lawsuit accuses them and others of conspiring to publicly identify Plame as a CIA agent to punish her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, for writing in an op-ed piece that the Bush administration twisted intelligence about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in the run-up to the Iraq war.
Cotchett, who took over as trial counsel in Plame's case on Tuesday, said legal precedent for whether Cheney and the others could claim legal immunity in the case comes, in part, from Paula Jones' sexual harassment case against Clinton.
In 1997, the U.S. Supreme Court said in a unanimous ruling that neither Clinton "or any other official has an immunity that extends beyond the scope of any action taken in an official capacity."
In order to be dismissed from the case or avoid testifying, Cotchett said, lawyers for Cheney and the other men would have to argue that they were acting on government business if they are found to have leaked Plame's name to the media.
Federal law makes it a crime to knowingly reveal the identity of a covert agent.
A hearing on motions to dismiss the case and on immunity for the defendants are expected in a month or two, Cotchett said.
The lawsuit, filed last month in U.S. District Court in Washington, came after Libby's indictment last October on charges of obstruction of justice and perjury in an ongoing federal investigation into who leaked Plame's identity to the media in 2003. He is so far the only person criminally charged in the case.
The CIA-leak case flared after Wilson accused the administration of leaking his wife's name to the media after he criticized the government in a New York Times opinion piece.
Rove was also named as a source by conservative columnist Robert Novak, who first revealed Plame as a CIA operative.
Cotchett, a longtime Democratic Party supporter and legal adviser, is best known for winning a $3.3 billion jury verdict in a case involving the failure of Lincoln Savings and Loan in the 1980s.
Court documents show that Cheney has hired Emmet Flood, a lawyer from Clinton's impeachment defense team, to represent him in the Plame case.
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clif, at 10:50 PM
"The Trail from Munich,"
Steven Spielberg's deeply sobering film about the terrorist attack at the 1972 Olympics draws a trail that leads directly to the attacks of 9/11. This is made clear in the final scene, set across the river from Manhattan, which features the World Trade Center towers in the background. The film suggests that our eye-for-an-eye approach to terrorism began in Munich 30 years ago.
It also shows, with sickeningly convincing brutality, how tragically that approach has failed. The message is that we are still on the road of endless violence and that the War on Terror, no matter how many jihadists are killed, will become our own paralyzing nightmare.
I'm sure audiences will be surprised at how detailed and serious the morality in this film is. The motives of the Black September terrorists are credible: they want their homeland back, they want reprisal for Palestinians killed by Israel, and they want the world to notice them. The Munich massacre served all those purposes. The team of Israeli agents who go after the Black September are equally credible in their motivation: they want vengeance for the murder of innocents, they want to protect the Jewish homeland, and they want to strike a blow in defense of civilization.
But unlike the terrorists, they do not achieve these aims. Avner, the ex-Mossad agent who heads the assassination squad (played with moving fervor by Eric Bana) winds up as an exile without a home, a morally corrupt man who cannot live with his guilt, and a hired gun disowned by civilization. Avner stands for us, the "good" people who set out to destroy the "evil" people, who in turn believe that they are good and we are evil.
"I see no difference between Jews and Palestinians," a naive TV reporter says near the beginning. "They were gradually getting closer, and then this happened to break them apart." What makes this statement naive is that the balance has tipped much further toward making Arabs evil, backward, irrational, bloody-minded, unjust, and barbaric. The subtle message of "Munich," that vengeance ruins the person who wins it, has been lost.
I think that's the real trail we need to follow. It's possible to see equality between Arabs and Israelis, not in terms of right and wrong, but in terms of two opponents equally victimized by hatred. Israel and the Arab states have contributed to the sorrow of the world by carrying the hugest weight of that sorrow themselves. Insofar as right-wing factions in this country drag us into a war against evil, we will also be victimized, and our claim to be civilized will weaken bit by bit.
By films' end Avner succeeds in killing many of his assigned targets, only to realize with anguish that every single one was replaced by someone worse. This is happening now, only instead of a single Osama whose face is known everywhere, we are fostering millions of faceless enemies. We have no idea how many of them will become terrorists, but we can be certain that the stranglehold of hatred is growing tighter. Spielberg's disturbingly dark film is therefore more about our future than about our past.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/the-trail-from-munich_b_13159.html
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clif, at 10:50 PM
The Foole said;
Cliffy who won the debate last night between you and yourself?
No debate foole, just some posts of what I find interesting, and since Lydia has basically said keep it up, well boy, I am.....
Your scroll-by posts are getting really massive; have you broken your old record of 585 pounds of text in a 24-hour period?
Last time I checked bytes of information have no real weight, but do continue to be a wee bit dumb as a rock
BTW thanx a bunch for sharing your intimate knowledge of KY jelly.
Well SINCE you brought it up, I just googled it for you, BTW the Mexican Boy wants his $20 you stiffed him out of.
Kinda ironic that slick willie, your favorite, came from AK not KY, doncha think?
well since he was born ther I guess GOD wanted it that way...don't ya thunk?
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clif, at 11:03 PM
Cliffy,Lydia said keep posting all that boredom? My are'nt you a good little boy.It seems to me you're the only left winger left around here,what happened to all your pals? Where's Mike or Larry or Kay or wuffy? Have they all abandoned you? What happened to the "freedom blog?"
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Rusty Shackelford, at 11:58 PM
Rusty,
We hafta get cliffy an actual job so he will do something else besides cut-and-paste boring leftist mumbo jumbo 24/7. Maybe he would qualify for something paper hat-related.
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Freedom Fan, at 12:10 AM
Pentagon studying its war errors
Analysts assess tactics in Iraq, Afghanistan
This summer, high-level Pentagon officials ordered a pair of secret studies to pinpoint the military's failures in the two conflicts, and, according to one of the authors, ``the results won't be pretty" when the findings are produced this fall. Last week, the Defense Department invited about 50 of the nation's top counter insurgency specialists to a closed-door meeting outside Washington to critique recent operations and chart a way forward.
The studies, according to several Pentagon officials involved, have found serious deficiencies across the board.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/08/16/pentagon_studying_its_war_errors/?page=1
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clif, at 12:20 AM
Cliffy,thank you so much for that last cut and paste,I dont think I could have lived without knowing that.It sure takes a load off my shoulders.What was it again?
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Rusty Shackelford, at 12:34 AM
dusty simplex said;
Cliffy, Lydia said keep posting all that boredom?
Yes
My aren't you a good little boy. It seems to me you're the only left winger left around here, what happened to all your pals?
Maybe they do not have as much time as we seem to have being here everyday,,,
Where's Mike or Larry or Kay or wuffy?
Don't know son since they do not live in Kentucky
Have they all abandoned you?
Far from it son. Unlike repugs progressives do not throw people away like the Bush's are currently trying to throw Kathrine Harris away
What happened to the "freedom blog?"
Lydia must have changed her mind....since it IS her blog she has that particular prerogative.
BTW I did correct your typo's hope it does not offend you TOO much son.....
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clif, at 12:37 AM
dusty simplex said;
Cliffy,thank you so much for that last cut and paste,I dont think I could have lived without knowing that.It sure takes a load off my shoulders.What was it again?
Cliffy, thank you so much for that last cut and paste, I don't think I could have lived without knowing that. It sure takes a load off my shoulders. What was it again?
It is about the review of the wars, you know Afghanistan and Iraq. The pentagon study is basically going to say they are well to put it politely not fought very well. And that changes in tactics are necessary. Changes to the Fiasco that Bush and Dumsfeld have begot in the middle east.
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clif, at 12:41 AM
Well foole, just get the VA to approve my request for retraining. As this is what federal VA statutes say they must do. In order to release me. Instead they have placed me in the 100% category. They claim that I am not capable of retrtaining, because of some of my disability, which the social security disability also do.
Sorry I tried to get retrained, but they never medically cleared me to get retraining.
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clif, at 12:48 AM
So let me get this straight Cliffy,you tried to get back to active duty in your beloved army.But,alas they did'nt want you back,even though you had the exact plan to end the conflict in Iraq.Did they know that you,Shinseki and Zinni had come up with the answer and were ready to implement said plan if given the leeway? I mean just what the hell were they thinking,they had success dropped into their laps and they turned their backs on you once again.Those bastards sould burn in hell.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:07 AM
I mean this is akin to Gen. Pickett having the correct plan to take cemetary ridge and ole Granny Lee telling him to just bag it and make the damn charge.Foolishness just foolishness.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:10 AM
Your anger with those present army pukes is well founded.They screwed you left and right.Damn them to hell.They did the same thing to Shinseki and Zinni.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:12 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
So let me get this straight Cliffy, you tried to get back to active duty in your beloved army.
**NO son do try to read all the words, the VA retrains a soldier who has been medically discharged...unless the VA declares them 100% disabled.
But, alas they didn't want you back, even though you had the exact plan to end the conflict in Iraq.
**Can't go back son, I no longer can do certain things you MUST do in order to be able to be deployed
Did they know that you, Shinseki and Zinni had come up with the answer and were ready to implement said plan if given the leeway?
**Didn't happen but you can continue to be the simplex here, since your WAY to GUTLESS to go yourself boy.
I mean just what the hell were they thinking, they had success dropped into their laps and they turned their backs on you once again.
**Deciding a vet is 100% disabled is not exactly success, but repugs do attempt to spin things that way sometimes I guess.
Those bastards should burn in hell.
**Which ones, the people who originally treated me? The doctor who diagnosed my problems? The VA adjudicator who decided my case? Who do you rant about boy?
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clif, at 1:19 AM
Screw that disengauging unexploded ordnance,you need to find a new,appreciated specialty.Perhaps something to do with improving morale of the soldiers in the field.You could give talks on how the war is being handled wrongly,how they need another 400,000 troops.The need for additional armor.How Rummy is a shitbird chicken hawk.You know stuff like that to really get the soldiers pumped up and ready to fight.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:20 AM
Thats what I think you would be best at.Maybe you missed you're calling.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:22 AM
Something that will really make you proud to have served.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:24 AM
Dusty Simplex said;
I mean this is akin to Gen. Pickett having the correct plan to take cemetery ridge and ole Granny Lee telling him to just bag it and make the damn charge.
The charge for cemetery ridge was not possible for success...I know I walked the path during one of my battlefield lessons on tactics and military history. But Lee had little left as he had been beaten back on both the north and south flanks already
Foolishness just foolishness.
Most military tacticians, today, see the assault not the best, but none go quite that far as you do.
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clif, at 1:25 AM
You know those young men and women are out there putting everything on the line everyday,I'm sure they'd appreciate a former officer standing before them giving the the "real scoop," you know telling them their country is letting them down,people in america dont care what their doing,their officers dont know what their doing and maybe if all goes well,just like in Nam they can get spit on by your ilk when they reurn home.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:28 AM
Its a shame that a so called former officer has such shame and distain for todays army but I guess it really could be expected from a bitter man like you.It would be a shame...no a damn shame if theres a soldier or marine in Iraq reading this blog on his lap top and listening to you crap.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:34 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
Screw that disengaging unexploded ordnance, you need to find a new, appreciated specialty. Perhaps something to do with improving morale of the soldiers in the field. You could give talks on how the war is being handled wrongly, how they need another 400,000 troops. The need for additional armor. How Rummy is a shitbird chicken hawk. You know stuff like that to really get the soldiers pumped up and ready to fight.
Not for me son, as it would involve the very problem that cause me to be medically discharged. It also holds very little interest to me. The troops know if Dumsfeld is doing a good job or NOT. Their third deployment with the Dumb one claiming progress kind of makes that point.
Just for clarity, My job was to disarm, or Render Safe Explosive Ordinance....disengaging is something you do with military units, usually the enemy.
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clif, at 1:35 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
Something that will really make you proud to have served.
I do not need anything to make me proud of my service...I am.
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clif, at 1:37 AM
You promote yourself as a 10 year officer but you now turn your back on the services that not only paid for you education and trained you but now supports you and your family.But yet you have no objection in constantly bad mouthing the hand that educated,trained,fed and now feeds you.Whose is the real chicken hawk?
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:41 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
You know those young men and women are out there putting everything on the line everyday,
I know my daughter did from Nov 04 until Oct 05, HAVE YOU?
I'm sure they'd appreciate a former officer standing before them giving the the "real scoop,"
They have a real job to do and do not need you DUMB ideas
you know telling them their country is letting them down,
They learn that coming home and trying to get the benefits they were PROMISED.
people in America don't care what their doing,
People do care, as they have treated me quite well, and especially my daughter. But the government is a whole nother story.
their officers don't know what their doing and maybe if all goes well,
Well it is not the company, battalion or even division level officers. In fact the dunces you speak about actually Start with Dumsfeld and the PNAC fooles he culled into the pentagon
just like in Nam they can get spit on by your ilk when they return home.
sorry son If I see a soldier or vet I treat them with respect, unlike you have done here
but the NAM reference is what they will end up with having fought a war that never should have been started...and fought by the political Hacks instead of LISTENING to the MILITARY leadership who actually knew what needed to be done and how to properly do that.
BTW when you gonna sign up boy?
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clif, at 1:46 AM
Cliffy,as I've always suspected you're a phoney.You crap all over todays army because they wanted nothing to do with you and on a much higher level nothing to do with the likes of Shinsiki or Zinni and now you guys are bitter as all hell.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:49 AM
All your B.S. cannot change the vile eminating from you.You do nothing but bad mouth our countrys performance in Iraq while sitting behind your computer sucking on the public teat.You try with a dimwhits like Mike or Larry to make your self out as a military expert when the truth is the corp would just as soom listen to a doorknob as it would you and I think this pisses you off to no end.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 1:55 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
Its a shame that a so called former officer has such shame and disdain for today's army
Not disdain boy...but an understanding the troops are being asked to do something they never were trained to do, and something no military has ever successfully done....quell an insurgency, against an indigenous population.
but I guess it really could be expected from a bitter man like you.
Not bitter son, just not enamored with the waste of people equipment and finances we are currently doing(like you are). In a place where we were NOT asked to go in the first place...and that fact that the fooles running the war are SOO incompetent.
It would be a shame...no a damn shame if there's a soldier or marine in Iraq reading this blog on his lap top and listening to you crap.
you might be surprised boy. most of them understand that the war is NOT going they way Bush and Dumsfeld claim...Thus they realise that they are doing something that is not being recognized as what is REALLY is...Right now trying to stop a slow boil civil war. and that is never done with foreign troops especially ones who basically have no common customs language or ideals, the troops today have a thankless job which they like the soldiers in Vietnam can not do as it has been designed....they can win every battle, but NEVER subdue the Iraqi's thus are either trapped in this fight for years...or someday(proly sooner that we think) are coming home having done an impossible job heroically but ultimately not successfully destroy the Iraqi will to be free of outside influence
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clif, at 1:56 AM
Cliffy,all in all I feel a bit sorry for you.Its obvious the army does'nt want you back...for wharever reason,you call it.You're angry because they never listened to anything you had to say,right or wrong.The army was probly the brightest time in you life and they cast you away,like worn out shoes.You have a right to be pissed at them,you did their bidding,you followed orders,you toed the line,you were a soldier.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 2:04 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
You promote yourself as a 10 year officer but you now turn your back on the services that not only paid for you education and trained you but now supports you and your family.
No son I am doing exactly what Col Hackworth did,( he was required reading in my ROTC unit) when HE saw things that were not right he said so. Without regards as to who was President, or secretary of Defense.
As a vet it is the best I have to offer, which is MORE that you do boy.
But yet you have no objection in constantly bad mouthing the hand that educated, trained, fed and now feeds you.
You say bad mouthing, except proper criticism is exactly what is required as the MILITARY even is attempting to change, thus they even admit what they did(the leadership) was not effective. and thus there is a need of people who KNOW something to speak out. Blind loyalty led the German army to Stalingrad...and kept then there LONG after they had lost the battle. Blind loyalty gets many soldiers KILLED, thus a good critique can save lives...and point ways to either win a battle...or even point out that some battles should NOT be fought at all...LIKE the WAR in IRAQ.
Whose is the real chicken hawk?
You son, along with;
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Five deferments. “I had other priorities in the ’60s other than military service,” Cheney told a reporter in 1989.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.” The man who attacked Max Cleland’s patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
* “B-1” Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. “Knee problem,” although continued playing in the NFL for 8 years.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a ‘pilonidal cyst.’)
* Bill O’Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don’t shoot back.)
* Ann Coulter did not serve ...she just slanders those that do
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clif, at 2:06 AM
Cliffy,I'm amazed that sitting on your ass in Kentucky you have your thumb on the pulse of the military morale.How on earth do you get all this done? By reading and posting all those left wing web sites? I dont know I just have a hard time understanding how our military,abet the strongest and smartest in the world can make it through another day without old Cliffy back in uniform and leading the charge up cemetary hill...so to speak.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 2:11 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
Cliffy, as I've always suspected you're a phony.
**Getting testy son?
You crap all over today's army because they wanted nothing to do with you and on a much higher level nothing to do with the likes of Shinsiki or Zinni and now you guys are bitter as all hell.
**sorry son none of us are BITTER, we just want better choices that get less people killed and wounded, and people who made very serious mistakes to OWN up to their FAILURES.
1:49 AM
.
All your B.S. cannot change the vile emanating from you.
**Not form me boy, you the one getting ANGRY here , quite angry
You do nothing but bad mouth our country's performance in Iraq
**I guess the truth hurts you since it is Bubble boy and Dumsfeld who bear the shame for the current Fiasco
while sitting behind your computer sucking on the public teat.
**No son it is called a disability pension for a disability from my service in the First Gulf War.
**Nice to see you do not think a vet who is disabled deserves compensation.
You try with a dimwhits like Mike or Larry to make your self out as a military expert when the truth is the corp would just as soon listen to a doorknob as it would you and I think this pisses you off to no end.
**Your the one getting angry as the tone of this POST shows boy.....real angry and YOU can do NOTHING with your anger BUT rant can you boy?
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clif, at 2:14 AM
Cliffy,the day you received your commission as an officer did you ever think the day would come that you would sit at a computer and continually try your best to undermine the service that afforded you the best years of your life?
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Rusty Shackelford, at 2:17 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
Cliffy, all in all I feel a bit sorry for you.
You have a funny way of showing it with all you ranting about me.
Its obvious the army doesnt want you back...for whatever reason, you call it.
It is called a disability that disqualifies me from military service...which I got in a combat zone.
You're angry because they never listened to anything you had to say, right or wrong.
Sorry boy, but your the one who is spewing rage here
The army was probably the brightest time in you life and they cast you away, like worn out shoes.
Actually My college years were quite bright, and my best years have been spent with my younger daughter.....she is the brightest time I have.
You have a right to be pissed at them, you did their bidding, you followed orders, you toed the line, you were a soldier.
I am not pissed, but YOU sure appear that way, especially the couple of posts before this one. I actually bear NO ill will from my time. I am proud of what I did, and have a peace about it that you proly can not appreciate.
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clif, at 2:20 AM
I be willing to guess that the other officer candidates in your class would be quite proud of you today.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 2:20 AM
No Cliffy,you should read your back postings.You do quite a bit of army bashing.I admit,not about the on line soldier your betters.Thats quite typical of the old disgrunteled employee.
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Rusty Shackelford, at 2:23 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
Cliffy, I'm amazed that sitting on your ass in Kentucky you have your thumb on the pulse of the military morale.
**Talking to vets who are assigned to the local military post, and people in my daughters unit. Reading military Blogs. Talking to vets who are in treatment like I am,...and listening to them instead of the TALKING heads.
How on earth do you get all this done?
**JUST a little work son.
By reading and posting all those left wing web sites?
**Far from it son, in fact I get more from soldiers and vets in person than I get online.
I don't know I just have a hard time understanding (much)how our military, abet the strongest and smartest in the world can make it through another day without old Cliffy back in uniform and leading the charge up cemetery hill...so to speak.
**Well that is not in the cards, but you do make a good comparison for me as to what people who HAVE been there say...and what a chicken hawk like your self says....
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clif, at 2:26 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
Cliffy, the day you received your commission as an officer did you ever think the day would come that you would sit at a computer and continually try your best to undermine the service that afforded you the best years of your life?
**You know soo little. What you call undermining, is simply criticism. The undermining has already BEEN done by the lies to war, faked Intel, poor plan, non phase 4 planning, incompetence at the HIGHEST levels....no son I can do nothing to undermine like they already have done.
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clif, at 2:29 AM
Dusty Simplex said...
I be willing to guess that the other officer candidates in your class would be quite proud of you today.
Some would some wouldn't, especially the couple of sycophants we had that let the rest of us know they were simply interested in getting military paper work so when the attempted to run for office they were vets...they never really tried as they were only asking for a national guard commission, and NOT active duty
No Cliffy, you should read your back postings.
I do son, but what YOU call bashing is NOT the ARMY but it's incompetence in the leadership especially Dumsfeld and his minions, and THEY are not the military , but simply people who are occupying an Office that they will leave soon, but NOT soon enough. There is a very REAL difference...which you obviously you can not phantom
You do quite a bit of army bashing.
Wrong son, the leadership is NOT the Army. It is something that today's Army MUST endure, hopefully without major lasting damage.
I admit, not about the on line soldier your betters.
At least you can see that.
That's quite typical of the old disgruntled employee.
Far from disgruntled...I am rather at peace with my relationship with the military. I would have replaced my daughter If I could have, but almost every parent probably would do that.
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clif, at 2:38 AM
Hopefully you have vented your rage tonight dusty...and can sleep better.....and can find some peace in your life, as you throw out much anger and even rage at times.
Could it be because you see the mess the repugs have made., And how it is coming home to roost in their party and campaigns. Thus setting the stage as the democrats did in 1994.
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clif, at 2:43 AM
Dusty, you forgot to declare victory tonight. Hopefully Tiny inTellect ot The Foole will do it for you.
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clif, at 3:07 AM
Leave it up to the Bush administration and Dumsfeld to be able to cause an Gas shortage in...IRAQ;
To mitigate the Iraqi fuel crisis, Iraq has signed new contract with Syria in order to receive oil products from it, oil ministry official said.
Currently, Iraq is passing through its worst fuel crisis since the US invasion. Lack of gas and kerosene is the most critic issue.
Officials said that it is not clear how Syria, a country with hardly enough refining capacity to meet domestic needs, will help.
Before the U.S. invasion Iraq used to produce up to 20 million liters of gasoline a day. Current production is estimated to be 3 million liters.
Incompetence has NO bounds with these clowns.....
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clif, at 3:51 AM
Clif, it's about 7 AM your time. Get some rest; you've got another long day of cutting and pasting ahead.
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TalllTexan, at 4:04 AM
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clif, at 4:20 AM
Tiny inTellect how do you know I am not already rested up? Clairvoyance?
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clif, at 4:21 AM
No debate foole, just some posts of what I find interesting, and since Lydia has basically said keep it up, well boy, I am.....
-cliffy, of KY
That is where the KY jelly will come in handy.
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Freedom Fan, at 8:53 AM
65% of British Muslims polled believed that their communities should increase efforts to integrate. The same poll also produced troubling results: 13% lionized the July 7 terrorists and 16% sympathized. [So 29% of British Muslims believe that intentionally killing their innocent countrymen is an appropriate way of expressing grievances].
Whether in Britain or America, those who claim to speak for Muslims have a responsibility to the majority, which wants to reconcile Islam with pluralism.
-Irshad Manji, author of The Trouble with Islam Today: A Muslim’s Call for Reform in Her Faith
Her audio message.
While Western "feminists" and other clueless lib women make apologies for Islamist extremism, Muslim women speak out against misogyny, terror and oppression at the hands of Muslim men whose violent, adolescent minds are stuck in 7th century fantasies while living in a 21st century world. These courageous ladies have my full support.
They try to spread their jihadist message -- a message I call, it's totalitarian in nature -- Islamic radicalism, Islamic fascism, they try to spread it as well by taking the attack to those of us who love freedom.
-George W. Bush
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Freedom Fan, at 9:13 AM
Islamic terrorists, many while shouting "Allahu Akbar", intentionally target innocent civilians around the world.
Since the Islamist terror attacks of New York and Washington D.C. on September 11, 2001 through August 12, 2006, there have been at least 4,896 acts of Islamist terror victimizing 58 different countries, killing 28,096 and injuring 54,408 people.
-Islam: Religion of Peace
To be taken seriously, those who advocate an immediate end to U.S. involvement in the Middle East, must understand the motivating reason why these terrorists continue to commit these atrocities.
The fact that there are bad people in all religions, is irrelevant. Similarly, the fact that most common criminals in the West were raised as Christian is irrelevant. Also the fact that Western leaders may be Christian and their foreign policy is controversial is irrelevant.
29% of British Muslims believe that intentionally killing their innocent countrymen is an appropriate way of expressing grievances.
Terrorists, virtually unanimously, state that they intentionally target innocent folks for murder, to glorify Allah and that he has commanded this in the Quran.
The only relevant question is:
Are terrorists corrupting the message of Islam, or does Islam corrupt the humanity of people making them into terrorists?
Each of us has a duty to inform ourselves about Islam in order to intelligently answer this question.
An appropriate response to terror demands our knowledge of the fundamental motivation of Islamic terrorists.
I have studied the Quran and I believe the terrorists. How about you?
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Freedom Fan, at 10:05 AM
Federal judge orders end to wiretap program
Says warrantless domestic surveillance program is unconstitutional
AP Updated: 2 minutes ago
DETROIT - A federal judge ruled Thursday that the government’s warrantless wiretapping program is unconstitutional and ordered an immediate halt to it.
U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor in Detroit became the first judge to strike down the National Security Agency's program, which she says violates the rights to free speech and privacy.
“Plaintiffs have prevailed, and the public interest is clear, in this matter. It is the upholding of our Constitution,” Taylor wrote in her 43-page opinion.
The American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit on behalf of journalists, scholars and lawyers who say the program has made it difficult for them to do their jobs.
The government argued that the program is well within the president's authority, but said proving that would require revealing state secrets.
The ACLU said the state-secrets argument was irrelevant because the Bush administration already had publicly revealed enough information about the program for Taylor to rule.
By holding that even the president is not above the law, the court has done its duty,” said Ann Beeson, the ACLU’s associate legal director and the lead attorney for the plaintiffs.
The NSA had no immediate comment on the ruling."
Looks like your little dictators wings were clipped yet again, thats one more for those that love freedom and liberty instead of an authoritarian police state ruled by a megalomaniac dictator.
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Mike, at 10:21 AM
Clif keep making the fools look follish and poundind the trolls into the ground, i'll be back more probably around Sunday, I just have a lot of stuff to wrap up with the accident.
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Mike, at 10:22 AM
Dolt said "Back talking to authority IS NOT "turning the other cheek" no matter how you try to spin it.
(unless of course you're actually TRYING to get the other cheek smitten as well...)"
Ah I see dolty you finally admitted you are against freedom of speech and the right to publicly express our opinion and dissent, you and your kind support an authoritarian police state where no one should dare disagree or dissent with our leaders............and the only reason for that is that the Bush Administrations lies, poisonous rhetoric, fear tactics and false propaganda could never stand up to the light of truth so thats why you guys want to surpress the right to voice our opinion and question these people and their corrupt evil policies and lies, you guys are afraid od disent or debate, thats why most Reich wing blogs are censored and dont allow comments from libs or progressives and why Coulter is afraid of honest debate with an impartial moderator, all she does is resort to personal attacks, slander and try to talk over and out shout people.
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Mike, at 10:30 AM
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Mike, at 10:32 AM
Then there is Facist Fool who pretends to be an intellectual seeking honest debate but has posted more about KY jelly the last two days that debate any real issues with anyone, typical repug if you cant defeat the messenger attack or slander them with lies and self admitted false generalizations.
10:32 AM
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Mike, at 10:32 AM
Lets see here last month GWB's defiance of the Geneva Convention was ruled unconstitutional, now this month his illegal warrantless domestic surveillance program is ruled unconstitutional, looks like the public and the courts are starting to wake up and knock the wanna be king off his little hill or throne and put him in his place, now if the Dems can take back Congress in the fall, then all the checks and balances will be functioning again and they can do more than just reign in the little wanna be dictator, they can end his reign of evil and undo all his failed policies and his harmful self serving agenda for the Neo Con elite and restore America's tarnished world image and make us loved again instead of despised and distrusted by most of the world.
we need a smart president who inspires trust and loyalty rather than hate, war and death and who designs policies that benefit everyone, not just the insiders and the wealthy elite.
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Mike, at 10:42 AM